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Hi all:
First, let me say that I'm happy to live in an urban environment with a diverse group of ethnicities and socio-economic backgrounds. Having said that, what the heck is going on on 4th between K and Mass? I have passed by in my car a few times this past week and have seen quite a few characters. It looks like a hub of crack-induced prostitution activity. I'm not talking about one or two individuals but rather 8 to 10 folks hanging out by a fence near a vacant lot. Is there anything can that local residents or their representatives can do? I don't mean to suggest just moving them somewhere else or carting them off to jail -- there's just gotta be a better way! Thanks for letting me rant.
Tamden
Comments
Call the police & keep calling. We are now getting sex workers migrating from Baltimore according to the police!
Posted By Si Kailian / At 8/13/08 2:09 PM
Posted By Si Kailian / At 8/13/08 2:09 PM
Carting them off to jail sounds like a plan to me!
Posted By Charles Walker / At 8/13/08 4:32 PM
Posted By Charles Walker / At 8/13/08 4:32 PM
What? Sex workers from B-more migrating to DC and the cops know this-So what are they doing about it? If they know this is happening then they must have some kind of plan in place to deal with it!
Posted By MVS resident / At 8/13/08 5:23 PM
Posted By MVS resident / At 8/13/08 5:23 PM
those are the colored TV's you're asking about? this(4th abd K) area is know for the he-she street hookers.
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/13/08 6:10 PM
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/13/08 6:10 PM
Shhh... Close you eyes and it will go away. For such a small place, DC seems to have that attitude.
Posted By Jan Scope / At 8/13/08 6:52 PM
Posted By Jan Scope / At 8/13/08 6:52 PM
the dc jail isnt big enough for the transvestite hookers if they all got arrested at once because they have to be protected from the general population or the government will be sued.
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/13/08 8:12 PM
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/13/08 8:12 PM
They usually cruise the 1000 block of 4th st nw. the west side is the grassy area by the Museum Square Apts fence. the east side has a couple little apt buildings, a couple vacant lots & the Salvadoran place on the corner of 4th & K. a little further up is the DC GOV lot on the hill by 395 that they dumped those trailers on the other year. Many places to congregate...The police are aware and doing a good job but more calls do increase the priority. now that we have many new neighbors in city vista, more eyes on the street..
Posted By Si Kailian / At 8/14/08 7:52 AM
Posted By Si Kailian / At 8/14/08 7:52 AM
I can call the police, but I should call the police and say what? Can they arrest people or make them move if they are technically just loitering? Should I say that I "suspect" prostitution?
Posted By tamden / At 8/14/08 8:00 AM
Posted By tamden / At 8/14/08 8:00 AM
The original poster said "4th between K and Mass." But I think the concentration is more above K Street near Museum Square Apartments as Si suggests. Therefore I'd say it's more "4th between K and NY Ave". My condo is at 4th and I St NW and looks north towards Museum Square. It is a frequent occurrence at night for 2 or 3 police cruisers end up lights ablazed for 20-30 minutes in front of Museum Square.
Posted By FourthandEye / At 8/14/08 8:09 AM
Posted By FourthandEye / At 8/14/08 8:09 AM
Richard, what is a colored TV?
Posted By MVT Resident / At 8/14/08 10:23 AM
Posted By MVT Resident / At 8/14/08 10:23 AM
10:23 it's a description used by chris rock and in several instances, poetry
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/14/08 10:58 AM
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/14/08 10:58 AM
See article below from 6 years ago. Enough is enough.
DC Has Plan To Cut Back on Transvestite Prostitutes
Sam Ford , NLJA (ABC TV affiliate) Channel 7
7/12/2002
[WASHINGTON, DC] - The District has a new plan to cut back on transvestite prostitutes, and drug abuse around 4th and K Streets in Northwest Washington, near the INS Headquarters.
The plan includes removing nuisance properties, including city owned abandoned trailers, where the prostitutes are sleeping. They also plan to cut back on trees where they are hiding, and prosecutors tell ABC 7, they have hopes for their plan.
Kathy Worthington with the U.S. Attorney's office says when there is an arrest, there will be diversion programs to try to attempt to rehabilitate these individual so that there are no repeat problems.
There are also plans to write victim's impact statements, so when the prostitutes are arrested, judge's will keep them off the street for longer periods of time.
A Closer Look
They come to the area from as far away as Baltimore: men who dress as women, often working as prostitutes that are driving away long-time residents.
"It's noise, drugs, cursing and screaming and jumping all out in the street to keep you awake at night," says Henry Anderson.
Henry and his wife Ida are leaving their high-rise apartment, located just north of the U.S. Capitol, after 18 years because of what's right outside their window.
"Sometimes, they're in the act [of having sex]. ... I never thought I would live to see the things I'm seeing now," says Ida.
The activity is happening in the shadows of the Capitol--around Fourth and K streets in Northwest Washington, near the headquarters of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization. Residents say it's an anything-goes market--transvestites make money selling sex and then spend that money with the drug dealers who have moved into the area.
From apartment windows, tenants in nearby buildings see the constant traffic of female impersonators soliciting sex, while drugs are being examined and consumed on the street. In the same area two weeks ago, police say a 20-year-old man on a bicycle was murdered in what is believed to be a drug-related murder.
At a community meeting in June, police were blasted by residents of several apartment buildings, church-goers, and even by officials from the Immigration and Naturalization Service that's headquartered in the region.
"These are armed security guards, federal officers protecting my building ... they get accosted," says Kurt Anderson, an INS security official.
"People are exposing themselves, pulling their genitals in front of people. It's embarrassing and something is going to have to be done," argued a resident.
As for police presence, Sergeant Mark Gilkey says, "I have only 11 officers in my unit, and we're spread citywide."
The police department's prostitution unit and others have so far had little impact. They mainly shoo people away. Meanwhile, advocates for the transgendered say the transvestites need counseling and treatment--and don't need to be put in jail.
"I'm and ex-offender myself. I know what it is to used substance abuse, but somebody has to provide help. We can't just keep moving them from one ward to another ward," says transgender advocate Earlene Budd.
Regardless, the Andersons are moving out next month.
"Yeah, we can't stand it anymore. We don't get any rest at night at all," says Henry.
A community meeting will be held Thursday night to discuss possible neighborhood patrols and a letter-writing campaign to urge judges to keep transvestites in jail longer, once they're arrested.
Posted By JR G. / At 8/14/08 1:15 PM
DC Has Plan To Cut Back on Transvestite Prostitutes
Sam Ford , NLJA (ABC TV affiliate) Channel 7
7/12/2002
[WASHINGTON, DC] - The District has a new plan to cut back on transvestite prostitutes, and drug abuse around 4th and K Streets in Northwest Washington, near the INS Headquarters.
The plan includes removing nuisance properties, including city owned abandoned trailers, where the prostitutes are sleeping. They also plan to cut back on trees where they are hiding, and prosecutors tell ABC 7, they have hopes for their plan.
Kathy Worthington with the U.S. Attorney's office says when there is an arrest, there will be diversion programs to try to attempt to rehabilitate these individual so that there are no repeat problems.
There are also plans to write victim's impact statements, so when the prostitutes are arrested, judge's will keep them off the street for longer periods of time.
A Closer Look
They come to the area from as far away as Baltimore: men who dress as women, often working as prostitutes that are driving away long-time residents.
"It's noise, drugs, cursing and screaming and jumping all out in the street to keep you awake at night," says Henry Anderson.
Henry and his wife Ida are leaving their high-rise apartment, located just north of the U.S. Capitol, after 18 years because of what's right outside their window.
"Sometimes, they're in the act [of having sex]. ... I never thought I would live to see the things I'm seeing now," says Ida.
The activity is happening in the shadows of the Capitol--around Fourth and K streets in Northwest Washington, near the headquarters of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization. Residents say it's an anything-goes market--transvestites make money selling sex and then spend that money with the drug dealers who have moved into the area.
From apartment windows, tenants in nearby buildings see the constant traffic of female impersonators soliciting sex, while drugs are being examined and consumed on the street. In the same area two weeks ago, police say a 20-year-old man on a bicycle was murdered in what is believed to be a drug-related murder.
At a community meeting in June, police were blasted by residents of several apartment buildings, church-goers, and even by officials from the Immigration and Naturalization Service that's headquartered in the region.
"These are armed security guards, federal officers protecting my building ... they get accosted," says Kurt Anderson, an INS security official.
"People are exposing themselves, pulling their genitals in front of people. It's embarrassing and something is going to have to be done," argued a resident.
As for police presence, Sergeant Mark Gilkey says, "I have only 11 officers in my unit, and we're spread citywide."
The police department's prostitution unit and others have so far had little impact. They mainly shoo people away. Meanwhile, advocates for the transgendered say the transvestites need counseling and treatment--and don't need to be put in jail.
"I'm and ex-offender myself. I know what it is to used substance abuse, but somebody has to provide help. We can't just keep moving them from one ward to another ward," says transgender advocate Earlene Budd.
Regardless, the Andersons are moving out next month.
"Yeah, we can't stand it anymore. We don't get any rest at night at all," says Henry.
A community meeting will be held Thursday night to discuss possible neighborhood patrols and a letter-writing campaign to urge judges to keep transvestites in jail longer, once they're arrested.
Posted By JR G. / At 8/14/08 1:15 PM
@JR G. - thanks for digging up that article and sharing with us. It is depressing that 6 years produce minimal progress. It's important to note that the cops seem to be doing an ample job policing the area - but their need to be consequences to discourage illicit behavior. As a resident looking from the outside in it does seem like that's where the process is failing the community.
Posted By James / At 8/14/08 1:51 PM
Posted By James / At 8/14/08 1:51 PM
The prostitution laws need to be changed. Call Phil Mendelson. As it stands, the police must witness the proposition of sex for money. How likely is that?
The mayor, the city council, the police chief, the US Attorney, and the courts need to get behind Broken Windows policing. Prostitution => drugs => dealers => more drug related crimes like robberies and turf wars => shootings
You do not have this kind of disfunctional behavior in surrounding counties because they do not put up with it.
Posted By ed / At 8/15/08 6:50 AM
The mayor, the city council, the police chief, the US Attorney, and the courts need to get behind Broken Windows policing. Prostitution => drugs => dealers => more drug related crimes like robberies and turf wars => shootings
You do not have this kind of disfunctional behavior in surrounding counties because they do not put up with it.
Posted By ed / At 8/15/08 6:50 AM
From what I can assess, it appears that this group of transexual prostitiutes and their associates claimed this area after being relocated from 10th and M St. NW 10 years ago or so.
As a matter of fact the neighbors at 10th and M hoisted a huge banner to announce to the johns that "The girls have relocated to 4th and L." across the intersection of 10th and M.
Since there was(10 years)no development at 4th and L the subculture thrived.
Posted By Libby / At 8/15/08 9:45 AM
As a matter of fact the neighbors at 10th and M hoisted a huge banner to announce to the johns that "The girls have relocated to 4th and L." across the intersection of 10th and M.
Since there was(10 years)no development at 4th and L the subculture thrived.
Posted By Libby / At 8/15/08 9:45 AM
The banner actually said 5th and K.
You aren't going to "solve" the problem. You're going to gentrify it out of existence in that area. They will go somewhere else, but 5th and K has had its turn. The next place can't be too far away, and will need some rundown housing. "Not too far away" means that a lot of the clients come from the nicer areas and wouldn't be caught dead driving to PG. I have no idea where it will settle, really. But it will move soon (next year or two).
We had a guy renovating a house on M Street in the early 80's. Got into an argument with one of the TV's at 9th and M. The TV decked him. The police seargeant at the time said something like: "Don't mess with them, they got that way in prison". One was found dead about every two years or so until they moved. Where you've got the TV's, you've got drugs and drug sales. Nasty business.
There have been many, many improvements in dealing with prostitution over the years, including some rearrangements in the court system. (And, yes, Jack really did long, hard, good work there.) But the TV's are a nasty problem, and the cops and courts have never found a reasonable solution.
The best answer is to pick a rundown area somewhat to the east but not where an old guy would be afraid to drive his Mercedes, where there are already some problems, and hang the banner. Wait a few years. They'll go there.
Posted By Hal Davitt / At 8/16/08 7:55 AM
You aren't going to "solve" the problem. You're going to gentrify it out of existence in that area. They will go somewhere else, but 5th and K has had its turn. The next place can't be too far away, and will need some rundown housing. "Not too far away" means that a lot of the clients come from the nicer areas and wouldn't be caught dead driving to PG. I have no idea where it will settle, really. But it will move soon (next year or two).
We had a guy renovating a house on M Street in the early 80's. Got into an argument with one of the TV's at 9th and M. The TV decked him. The police seargeant at the time said something like: "Don't mess with them, they got that way in prison". One was found dead about every two years or so until they moved. Where you've got the TV's, you've got drugs and drug sales. Nasty business.
There have been many, many improvements in dealing with prostitution over the years, including some rearrangements in the court system. (And, yes, Jack really did long, hard, good work there.) But the TV's are a nasty problem, and the cops and courts have never found a reasonable solution.
The best answer is to pick a rundown area somewhat to the east but not where an old guy would be afraid to drive his Mercedes, where there are already some problems, and hang the banner. Wait a few years. They'll go there.
Posted By Hal Davitt / At 8/16/08 7:55 AM
All I can say is: WOW. I don't know my way around here enough to know where I'd like the prostitutes to go. But if they moved up near 5th and P NW, it would be OK with me.
Posted By Libby / At 8/16/08 7:16 PM
Posted By Libby / At 8/16/08 7:16 PM
They should move to the suburbs where their clients mostly come from. That will never happen though - the authorities in the suburbs have functioning government and they wouldn't stand for it. DC is cushy for the prostitutes so we're stuck with them. I've noticed before that sometimes I will see prostitutes standing along Rhode Island Av. as soon as I cross the line into DC from Mt Rainier.
Posted By Charles Walker / At 8/17/08 8:04 AM
Posted By Charles Walker / At 8/17/08 8:04 AM
a few years ago i spoke with the Gay and Lesbian Unit of MPD about this and they said it wasnt part of their mission to bust TV prostitutes and i needed to contact the Vice unit of MPD. it was also stated that the resources for detox, rehab, relapse prevention, housing and all the other social services requirements are not available. they also said psychiatric social workers would also be needed.
Posted By rr446 / At 8/17/08 9:27 AM
Posted By rr446 / At 8/17/08 9:27 AM
I fear we could be stuck with this problem for awhile. The area where they are is nestled between a vacant lot, the highway and museum square apartments. Unfortunately my impression is that the Museum Square residents are too apathetic to call anything in.
Posted By Jason / At 8/17/08 2:47 PM
Posted By Jason / At 8/17/08 2:47 PM
blame the tenants...typical answer. reminds me of my late slumlord friend who hated all tenants. his motto was...all tenants are bad or else they'd be homeowners.
Posted By richard / At 8/17/08 3:27 PM
Posted By richard / At 8/17/08 3:27 PM
What specifically do the suburbs do to discourage prostitution? Considering JR G's article little has changed in six years so the city's plan is far from effective. We need to continue to challenge our leadership and let them know the status quo isn't acceptable. I'd love to know specifically what the suburbs do that works so that I can ask Councilmembers, our CID, MPD, etc why they don't do those things... if we continue to talk in vague phrases rather than specifics it allows them to dance around the issue.
Posted By James / At 8/17/08 4:37 PM
Posted By James / At 8/17/08 4:37 PM
james, i dont know but i can say this: drive out rhode island avenue NE beyond south dakota and you will see prostitutes on the district side of the boundary but NOT on the maryland side of rhode island avenue.
Posted By richard / At 8/17/08 5:38 PM
Posted By richard / At 8/17/08 5:38 PM
We live near 4th and Eye and have noticed that the street is used at night by hookers. Walking our dogs, usually in the early morning, we have seen sundry men zipping up their pants, people hiding in alleys and in the shadows, and marvelled at the burly legs in fishnets.
Residents in our building call the police regularly at Precinct 1 to report these activities, as well as panhandling.
The police responded postively.
Also, the city is putting up lights back there and up 3rd Street. That has helped considerably.With the season changing and longer nights, street lamps would probably help.
Because of your comments, I walked my dogs to K and then to 5th today, to get a better picture of the area further up 4th.
I like the idea of community walks and other activities.I would be willing to walk my dogs in the area and encourage others to do so, if I weren't alone. There were professionals leaving the INS/DHS building, but up 4th, it looked like a group of people I wouldn't feel comfortable passing was hanging out.
It would help just to get people out on the street who are tax-paying, law-abiding.
The police and Mt. Vernon Triangle CID organized a dog and police walk on August 14th. I wonder how that went.
There is talk of developing a city park in the area, since it's one of the least green areas here....in the meantime, there are small steps that can make it more vibrant and less threatening. Any other ideas? Suggestions welcome.
Gabi
Posted By gabriela eaglesome / At 8/20/08 5:23 PM
Residents in our building call the police regularly at Precinct 1 to report these activities, as well as panhandling.
The police responded postively.
Also, the city is putting up lights back there and up 3rd Street. That has helped considerably.With the season changing and longer nights, street lamps would probably help.
Because of your comments, I walked my dogs to K and then to 5th today, to get a better picture of the area further up 4th.
I like the idea of community walks and other activities.I would be willing to walk my dogs in the area and encourage others to do so, if I weren't alone. There were professionals leaving the INS/DHS building, but up 4th, it looked like a group of people I wouldn't feel comfortable passing was hanging out.
It would help just to get people out on the street who are tax-paying, law-abiding.
The police and Mt. Vernon Triangle CID organized a dog and police walk on August 14th. I wonder how that went.
There is talk of developing a city park in the area, since it's one of the least green areas here....in the meantime, there are small steps that can make it more vibrant and less threatening. Any other ideas? Suggestions welcome.
Gabi
Posted By gabriela eaglesome / At 8/20/08 5:23 PM
When are those trashy "apartments" going to be blown up that sit conveniently in Whoreville, DC!?!? A couple months ago, I saw a FOR RENT sign outside of one!
Oh, and just this evening, as I took my guys out on a bike ride down the Slumseum Square side of L Street, there were 11 cruisers out with their bars all lit up. I didn't have time to ask what was going on, but that whole area was awash in blue LED light.
Needless to say, the whores, sluts, and general walking trash was nowhere to be seen.
Posted By Nicholas McKenna / At 8/20/08 8:33 PM
Oh, and just this evening, as I took my guys out on a bike ride down the Slumseum Square side of L Street, there were 11 cruisers out with their bars all lit up. I didn't have time to ask what was going on, but that whole area was awash in blue LED light.
Needless to say, the whores, sluts, and general walking trash was nowhere to be seen.
Posted By Nicholas McKenna / At 8/20/08 8:33 PM
museum square apartment building, the cheaply constructed site, was built around 1980
Posted By richard / At 8/21/08 3:29 AM
Posted By richard / At 8/21/08 3:29 AM
in 1999 the residents of museum square filed a complaint with DCRA about the housing violations and poor air quality throughout the building. there was a protest by residents and several neighborhood activists. the activists who joined the protest of the residents were: Leroy Thorpe, Beth Solomon and myself Richard Rogers. somebody must have been bribed the inspectors because the place is still operating.
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/21/08 12:09 PM
Posted By richard rogers / At 8/21/08 12:09 PM
Well, I didn't know about the goings on of the Slumseum Square. It's a damn shame that people have to live in that condition.
I just know that the building and grounds are poorly kept and unsightly.
I was referring to the town house style apartment things along 4th Street NW... they need to be bought, blown up and rebuilt.
Posted By Nicholas McKenna / At 8/21/08 12:31 PM
I just know that the building and grounds are poorly kept and unsightly.
I was referring to the town house style apartment things along 4th Street NW... they need to be bought, blown up and rebuilt.
Posted By Nicholas McKenna / At 8/21/08 12:31 PM
one of those units was for rent recently - 700/month. 1br & it barely had a kitchen.
Posted By Si Kailian / At 8/21/08 12:51 PM
Posted By Si Kailian / At 8/21/08 12:51 PM
how many units in museum square building?
Posted By richard / At 8/21/08 1:50 PM
Posted By richard / At 8/21/08 1:50 PM
The word on Museum Square is that the owners, "Parcel One - Phase One Associates," are looking to get out. Their contract with the city expires on October 1, 2008.
The place clearly needs to go. On its recent REAC inspection, it received an absolutely dismal score of 31.
Posted By Nick / At 8/21/08 1:56 PM
The place clearly needs to go. On its recent REAC inspection, it received an absolutely dismal score of 31.
Posted By Nick / At 8/21/08 1:56 PM
It has 302 units.
Posted By Nick / At 8/21/08 1:58 PM
Posted By Nick / At 8/21/08 1:58 PM
Well, that's pretty terrible.
Nobody can give a straight answer, is the building assisted living or not?
Posted By Nicholas McKenna / At 8/21/08 8:54 PM
Nobody can give a straight answer, is the building assisted living or not?
Posted By Nicholas McKenna / At 8/21/08 8:54 PM
many residents of museum square moved in when HR Crawford bought the land for Washington Apartments and forced them out.
Posted By richard / At 8/22/08 4:29 AM
Posted By richard / At 8/22/08 4:29 AM
